BADASS MINDSET PODCAST
BADASS MINDSET PODCAST is the ultimate resource for women dedicated to cultivating a transformative mindset that unlocks a life of abundance, health, healing, confidence, connection and true fulfillment.
If you believe you’re destined for MORE—to BE more, ACHIEVE more, and to CONTRIBUTE more—then you're in the right place. Each episode dives deep into the power of a badass mindset, offering actionable & empowering strategies and insights that support you in reshaping your thoughts, manifesting your desires, and attracting life-changing experiences and opportunities!
It's time to claim the abundance that is your birthright, and unleash the ultimate BADASS that lives within you.🤘🏼❤️🔥⚡️
BADASS MINDSET PODCAST
The Other Side of the Gun: Overcoming PTSD + Living a Purposeful Life After Tragedy ft. SUSAN SNOW (Author, Life Coach & Speaker)
Susan Snow joins us to recount the tragic Halloween night in 1985 when her father, a Los Angeles police detective, was killed in a drive-by shooting. At just 17, Susan faced emotions and chaos that no teenager should ever endure. She takes us through the initial shock, the painful moments at the scene, and the shattering impact on her life, underscoring the crucial importance of community and support in navigating such trauma.
Susan opens up about her healing journey, detailing the panic attacks, severe depression, and the struggle to appear strong while feeling broken inside. A breakdown triggered by the Columbine shootings revealed unresolved trauma, leading her to the pivotal support of a therapist who diagnosed her with PTSD. With unwavering support from her husband and a commitment to breaking generational cycles, Susan navigated the challenges of motherhood and created a supportive village for herself and others. The conversation highlights the importance of self-awareness, setting healthy boundaries, and continuous personal growth.
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To find and connect with Susan deeper:
Book: The Other Side of the Gun
Website & Speaking Inquiries -- susansnowspeaks.com
Share a personal story or submit a question you'd like answered in a future episode!
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Hey, bestie, welcome, or welcome back to the Bold and Badass Podcast. I'm your host, lacey, and I'm fired up that you're here, because I am so tired of women feeling inadequate for not being further along in life and like they're crazy or ungrateful, even for wanting more. On this show, I'm going to help you cut through the noise, turn your setbacks into your success story and become the most bold and badass version of you. I'm talking about calling in the most exciting opportunities, experiences and people into your life and claiming the abundance that is your birthright. So if you're ready to make some serious magic happen, grab your coffee and water and let's fucking go.
Speaker 1:Well, hello, susan. I'm so excited to have you on the show today to talk about your story and your amazing transformation after a very traumatic event. Unfortunately, especially as women, we do go through a lot of trauma and I think we're kind of expected to just carry on, not talk about it, not make any big deal of it, but that doesn't help us to heal and I think talking with each other and just being in community it really does help us to heal and grow from these experiences. So I love being able to do to grow and heal from these types of things. So, with that said, first, I would love to set the scene. If you would take us back all the way to 1985, tell us about your family, where were you when you heard the news about your father, and then what happened after.
Speaker 2:Well, that is a lot. I was in high school. I was 17 years old. I had a pretty normal life. It was all about friends and my boyfriend, school, my family. I had a very close relationship with my dad and a very strained relationship with my mother, but my dad was like my hero. He was my best friend and he was my safety net. So at the time he was a Los Angeles police detective and I thought that because he was a detective he came in after the fact, so there was less danger that he was in as opposed to when he was a street cop.
Speaker 2:On October 31st of 1985, it was Halloween night and I wanted to go to a Halloween party and I had a little bit of an argument that morning with my dad because it was a Thursday, it was a school night and he was very strict with that. So I was hoping to just convince my parents to allow me to go to this party. So I waited anxiously at home and my mom was the first to show up. She went straight into the bathroom and started to take her costume off. Meanwhile I ran into my room and I was getting my Madonna costume on, or starting to, and the phone rang and I ran to grab the phone, because who else is going to be calling my parents, right? So the phone has to be for me. And I picked it up and it was a lady from my brother's school and all she said was that there was a drive-by shooting and my dad was involved. So my mom had come around the corner and I handed her the phone and as I sat there and watched her, she was taking the remainder of her makeup off and talking to this woman, but you could see that her face was growing very pale and her body language changed and I just knew it was bad. And she got off the phone and she said we're going to the school. So we grabbed our purses and walked out the door, got in the car and the 10 minute drive that it took for us to get to the school. I just had such a pit in my stomach and I didn't know what we were going to embark on. Neither one of us spoke one word to each other while we were on that drive.
Speaker 2:We got there and the way that the school is set up is there is a parking lot that's in the middle of the school and the kids, since it was after school care. The kids were getting off in the backside of the school. So when we parked the car we got out of the car and walked towards the back of the school and as we were walking we saw police officers coming our way and they wouldn't glance up and look at us, but they had tears in their eyes. We kept walking and I could see an ambulance just sitting there, still with the lights on, and we kind of got a glimpse of my dad's truck. So we started to run towards the truck and we noticed on the street there was glass everywhere. And as we rounded the corner, that's where we saw my dad and he was covered up with a white sheet. My mom just started screaming and an officer was trying to hold her back and I was just standing there in the middle of the street, completely not able to take in what I just saw.
Speaker 1:And how old were you?
Speaker 2:17.
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 2:God and I looked at the ambulance and I was confused because I kept thinking why isn't anybody going to help him? Soon enough, we had some officers that escorted us away from the scene and took us into office in a school. I sat down in the office and my mom got kind of herded away by some detectives. I didn't know where my brother was. I just sat there just trying to wrap my head around what I just saw, but I was still really scared and I was still confused.
Speaker 2:It wasn't setting in Right, and so two ladies were in the office and they were talking and one of them said you know, unfortunately Detective Williams is deceased, and it just hit me right between the eyes. I felt like my world cracked and everything in my body. I wanted to run. I wanted to run and run and run away from this nightmare, just keep running. But my body was physically not able to do that. My legs felt like cement and as I was trying to navigate all of this, my mom came around the corner and she said you're going with a neighbor. Part of me wanted to run away. However, the child in me wanted to be with my family. I needed to be with my mom my brother.
Speaker 2:I still didn't know if he was hurt, what he saw any of that. She had her hands full because she was. She knew my parents for many, many years, so even for her to wrap her head around what just happened, she just didn't know quite what to do with me, and all I wanted at that point was my boyfriend, and we hadn't been dating very long he was nine at the time. The neighbor called and didn't tell him much, so when he showed up at her door he was just like get your jacket, let's go to the hospital. What hospital is he at? Where's your mom? Where's your brother?
Speaker 2:He just kept asking me questions and I couldn't spit it out I couldn't spit it out, I just couldn't and I finally did, and he dropped to his knees and we just spent the night trying to navigate all of these feelings and the what ifs. Like what now? My entire block used to be a very quiet neighborhood and it was filled with police officers. That night.
Speaker 2:You could hear the whirling of the helicopter that kept going over the houses and, unbeknownst to me, we were in danger because the man who killed my dad was on trial and my dad was the lead detective on that case, so it was targeted.
Speaker 1:It wasn't just a wrong place, wrong time.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, he was targeted and this was a planned out murder. It was an assassination and it had been planned out for months. The man that did it, he was on bail during his trial, so it gave him an opportunity, wow. Yeah, and so I mean my story is very complicated, there's a lot of parts to it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:The main part is that I had to learn very, very quickly. One because I had a strained relationship with my mother. My mom kind of turtled, you know. She's got a narcissistic personality which it's taken me 54 years to figure it out. I just figured that out last year, but-.
Speaker 1:It's a newer term that we hear about. I don't think this is it, but it's a newer term.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And I don't blame her, you know, don't get me her trauma and her pain in the only way she knew how. But all the focus at the time, and so be it, was on my brother and my mother and my father and I got kind of pushed to the side and the media didn't even know he had a teenage daughter for two days. Oh, wow, so I had this feeling of not being important in this scenario. Yeah, even though I had a relationship with this man for 17 years of my life.
Speaker 2:Yes, I just kind of had to figure things out myself, which I wouldn't say I figured it out. I mostly watched my mother and how she handled things and how she turtled inside and how she took on the victim role, and I said I didn't want to be that way. From the very beginning I was like I am my father's daughter. I knew it innately, but I just didn't know how to verbalize. I mean, when you're a kid in the eighties, it innately, but I just didn't know how to verbalize. I mean, when you're a kid in the 80s there was no talk of mental health. There was very little known about PTSD.
Speaker 1:There were absolutely no places for kids who have gone through trauma like that there were no resources, there was nothing. Therapy was still like a taboo subject where it's like only the really, really messed up people go there.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a proactive thing.
Speaker 1:It was like your life is in shambles if you're in therapy.
Speaker 2:Even I thought as a kid like if you went to therapy, you were nuts Like you were crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, right. That was just my mentality, because that's what I was taught by the other adults. So when Los Angeles police department came to my mom and said we want to pay for therapy for all three of you, at the time I was living in a bubble and a fog. I did everything that people wanted me to do, without even having a word about it, you know. And so when my mom came to me and said you're going to therapy, I was like, okay, I'll go to therapy. And I met with this man and for an entire year I saw him and we never talked about that night, he never asked and I was not mature enough to verbalize and I was a hot mess.
Speaker 1:I mean you were 17. I was a hot mess.
Speaker 2:My boyfriend was 19. And let me tell you, most 19-year-olds would have hightailed it out of there when that all went down. But my husband, now he's my husband, my boyfriend.
Speaker 1:That makes me feel good that makes me happy.
Speaker 2:He stayed, and I think part of the reason he stayed is because he knew what my mom was going to do and he knew that I was going to need a friend. But anyways, every time I had to go I was like today's the day. Today's the day he's going to help me, not feel what I didn't know. What it was was like panic attacks and severe depression, suicidal ideation, all the things right on every session. I was disappointed. After a year he looked at me and said you're a well-rounded young lady and you're going to be fine for the rest of your life and I don't need to see you anymore.
Speaker 2:I thought what? So my mindset from then on was that I was broken, crazy. Not even a professional can help me. I'm too far gone, like I'm going to have to really figure this out on my own. And what I ended up doing is because back then, people didn't know what to say to me, so they said things like you're so strong, You're so brave, you're going to be fine. And I took that and that was my emotional mask. I wore it so anytime anything happened and I was triggered, I just put that mask on, like I'm fine, I'm strong yeah.
Speaker 2:Lots of people do this. Lots and lots and lots of people do this. It took me 14 years 14 years and we left Southern California. I had married the boyfriend yeah, Now I have two kids and we moved to Colorado, just South of Denver. I was working in a salon and April 20th of 1999, we had moved here in 97 and in 99, April 20th, the Columbine shootings happened.
Speaker 1:Come on.
Speaker 2:Should have told you to strap yourself in, oh my God. So I had taken a break and I went into the back room and I turned on our little TV and it had the coverage and I sat there and I watched everything on that TV and I could see the police cars and the ambulance and the kids that were about the same age I was when my dad was killed. I started having flashbacks. Panic set in.
Speaker 1:I started to sweat.
Speaker 2:I turned white as a ghost and my colleagues had no idea what was happening because I never told my story, and so they were like well, you're too young to have kids there and I don't think you live in Littleton, so what's going on? I couldn't answer them because I had no idea. Remember, I was told I was going to be fine for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:You were strong yes.
Speaker 2:So I had no idea what was going on and I knew I had to finish my day. So I put my mask on and I went out and I did my day. And as soon as I left those doors, everything came flying back at me, especially the suicidal ideation I didn't want to be-.
Speaker 1:You said this is like 14 years after the fact, right, yep? Okay, so I have a couple questions. We're going to pick right back up on this. But Sure, did the guy ever get sentenced that murdered your father? He did. Is he still in prison? Funny, you should say that, oh, come on.
Speaker 2:On April 29th we got notified that he died on death row. Oh, sitting in death row, oh wow, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:So for the first time in my life, I feel safer being here and I feel at peace and I'm able to talk to you. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm able to talk to you without having that tiny thing in the back of my head saying is there going to be any retaliation?
Speaker 1:Right, or could something come back around? Okay, so you're 17 when all happened. The one sense of safety that you had is now gone. You even tried therapy and that almost made you feel less safe because nobody ever went there with you to really get to the bottom of it, and now you're feeling just kind of like a lost, duckling out of the world. So what was the dynamic of your family before this happened and then after? Like what changed in your day to day? How did this change your story?
Speaker 2:You know, honestly, people ask me like how did you stay alive all those years? Yeah, I can't answer that, I really can't. I think honestly. I think it was my husband, because he was always the constant. My brother and I were estranged for a long time because he too took the victim route and he made some bad choices in his life and I had to distance myself from that. He's doing fantastic right now. By the way, he is in his healing journey Great to hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we are super close. We started healing our relationship about six years ago and I think, with me having my revelation about our mother, it's opened his eyes as well as to how to protect his peace and his boundaries when it comes to that. But the dynamic was always very different after my dad was killed, because he was kind of the go-between, the voice of reason, and I had to take on that role. So the roles changed I became the parent and she was the child and I had to learn to take care of my own self, but even though I didn't know how to do that.
Speaker 2:So when I became a mother, I think the biggest dynamic for me is I wanted to change the generational habits and the cycle and I chose to do that and it's not easy, but I am proud of the mom that I am and I tend to that. And it's not easy, but I am proud of the mom that I am and I tend to people make fun of me because I collect children, not in a weird way, but usually kids that have a strained home life and they need that extra support. I'm a big proponent of it takes a village and I want to give kids and young adults the best advantage that they can have by having someone positive in their life. And I do have give kids and young adults the best advantage that they can have by having someone positive in their life. And I do have those kids who call me Mama Susan and I love it.
Speaker 1:That's so amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and my husband too, like that's just what we do and it's important for me. It just makes me feel even better about the work that I've done to be able to do that, and it's a journey I had to go through all the things I had to go through in order to get to the person I am today.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So when this happened with the Columbine thing, this was a real pivotal moment in my life because hubby, once again, he saw me spiraling, he saw it happening and it scared him and it was a slippery slope and he knew it. So he met me at the door a couple of days in and I said I'm scared, I need to get help. So I did. I went to a physician and he put me on antidepressants, because that's what they do. And then he handed me a card and he said I want you to make an appointment with this therapist. And at that point I laughed at him. I was about to say did that trigger a panic attack? I laughed. I was like, listen here, I went to one of those 14 years ago and they couldn't heal me. What do you think this person's going to be able to do? And he said you have no choice. So I said all right, and I made an appointment.
Speaker 2:I met with this therapist, who was a female this time, and she. There was something different when I sat in that room. She was listening intently to me and I told her everything I had gone through at 17 and what I was currently dealing with. She looked at me and she said susan, everything you've gone through since you were 17 is normal because you have ptsd. And I was like what? I was so confused because, like other people, I thought, wait, I wasn't in the military, I didn't go to war, what do you mean? I have PTSD.
Speaker 1:Like the only time you heard about that is from war, from military, exactly Yep.
Speaker 2:And she said Susan, anyone who goes through a traumatic experience can have PTSD. What you need to know, though, is that PTSD doesn't go away. You learn to manage it, and those were the most beautiful words ever, because how I describe it is like the sky opened up and rainbows shot out, because, finally, one I had someone that could hear me, validated. It Validated me. Yes, I'm not crazy, I'm not broken, and I can heal, and it was just an incredible feeling to know that I have hope now, and I was so grateful when I left. And it's very important and this is what I tell people is that you have to have that sense with that therapist, that you can be vulnerable with them, that you feel safe. To give you a safe space and I try to do this with others myself is giving people a safe space to tell their story.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And yeah and she, but she knew I was a handful. There was a lot that was going to have to be dissected from all those years of dealing with fight or flight and all the external stuff as well. So it was the beginning. It was a pivotal moment in my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To get me where I'm at now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I resonate so much with a big chunk of your story actually Lots of trigger warnings here. Back in 2017, I was raped and I also had a weird dynamic at home. I kind of had similar scenario with your parents. I didn't feel truly safe, truly seen, truly heard or free to express or be myself, and so after that happened, I felt very isolated. I started having daily panic attacks.
Speaker 1:My boyfriend at the time now husband we had only been seeing each other for a few weeks when I found out I was pregnant from that incident, and so I also had the same idea Anybody else would have been like peace. I'm so sorry you're going through that, but I don't think I can take that on. I actually fully expected him to do that. I sat him down one day and gave him the news and I was like I just didn't want to drag you along with you, not knowing until you're too far in and you feel like I did this to you or like I got you to fall for me and then broke this news to you and made it like you didn't have your own choice and so he stayed. So he's my blessing in this time too, because I said the same. I don't know how they're having those. It's like tightness in your chest, shortness of breath, your inability to think or breathe Any one thing that maybe you have tingling in my fingers.
Speaker 2:Yes, it starts with tingling in your fingers because your nervous system is all out of whack.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your body starts to feel hot, you feel like you can't breathe almost, and then it's just any little thing that you see or someone says could just trigger you and set things off. And so for me this went on for about three years until it was to the point where we were like you need help me, I need help, or this could actually lead me to my literal death. And so for me, I asked my dad to help me pay for therapy, because up until that point I had been to therapy once, not one time, but like at one time in my life as a very young child. I was kind of forced to go, and also my mindset at that time was kind of the same. The typical of what people thought of it back then is like only nutcases go to therapy. I was like, well, what's wrong with me, like why am I in therapy, and anyways. So I was like mindset about it. I felt humiliated, so I never asked anyone again for help. I did figure something out. But my first therapist I was incredibly lucky that the first one was the right one and she really changed my mindset and validated a lot of things that I didn't even know I needed and it had. Actually, we did talk about the rate, but it had nothing to do with the rate. She actually said to me.
Speaker 1:The same thing that your recent therapist said to you is hey, this makes a lot of sense, and this sounds like PTSD. And the PTSD, though, was from my childhood and my relationship with my parents and the way it played out in my experiences after the trauma, it almost amplified it. And so, after that trauma, oh yeah, oh yeah, trauma, exactly, exactly. But hearing those words for the first time, the first time, I learned that until you're conscious of it, until you become consciously aware that your thoughts and your beliefs and your values, they're not actually your own, until you become aware and then decide. Up until that point, my narrative was my mother's.
Speaker 1:I kept saying the same thing over and over, and my therapist, one day, she was like okay, pause, why do you keep saying that? I want to know who said that to you, who said that to you? And I was like, oh snap, my mom. My mom said that to me, and that is the first time it really clicked for me.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh, this isn't me, this isn't what I believe, and that's kind of what kicked off my healing and my personal development journey and the inner work and me figuring out like who am I, what am I about, what do I believe, what do I value, what do I want my thoughts and feelings about the world and about myself to be? And so, for me, therapy really laid a great foundation for me, but I also didn't think it was the end, all be all. It hasn't been the end, all be all for me in this emotional healing journey. So what I would love to know is obviously we know how the first experience went for you, this therapist that validated this for you for the first time. What was it that was able to kind of turn things around for you with therapy, and what tools and awarenesses or insights did you gain from this relationship with this therapist?
Speaker 2:Well she was a believer in attacking one thing at a time. So initially I was not sleeping and when you don't sleep it exacerbates your depression, exacerbates your anxiety. So I wasn't resting and we talked about it and she said here's what I want you to do. Have you ever journaled before? And I kind of looked at her funny and I was like no, I don't think I have. And she said well, I want you to take a regular notebook and you can journal in any way. It could be art, it could be music, it could be writing. However, it is that you need to get whatever is in your head out. And I thought it was a little foo-foo. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of people do, a lot of people do.
Speaker 2:Okay and she says, just try it for a week, cause I was kind of giving her a little pushback and she goes just try it for a week, but do it right before you go to bed. And I said okay, and she gave me some prompts and I did it for a week and what I found was that my brain shut off and I was able to go to sleep and I was like, wow, this stuff really works. But I think for her she needed to do something that was small, that gained my trust, so that she knew in the direction we needed to go. The intense stuff was going to come and because I had been dealing with the same like for so many years, she really needed to deconstruct instruction.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So she started very slowly with things. Then, once I started doing that, then I started getting into breathing techniques. Yes, she taught me box breathing, which is what I teach other people Breath work, tapping, all the things, cognitive therapies. I did eventually get into EMDR and I tell people that EMDR is life changing. It really is. However, it is deep and it is difficult, and what I find in talking to people they say oh yeah, I started EMDR but it got so intense it scared me and I didn't want to go anywhere.
Speaker 2:What I tell people is and I have this tagline called bulldoze your fear. Your purpose is to heal, but there's got to be a purpose for that healing, so like if it's your kids, or if it's something you've always wanted or something that you're lacking in your life or whatever. You wrap your head around that purpose, that why and anytime you feel that fear, you concentrate on that. It'll allow you to bulldoze through that fear. Once you do and you're able to do the work, the healing is just, it's immeasurable. It really opens you up to being able to see life and see things in a different light, and in my book I have an actual chapter called Rose Colored Glasses, because that's how I walked around. I didn't see things for what they really were, whether it was a relationship, friendship, job, whatever it was, I second guessed myself. I had self-sabotaging thoughts in my head all of that. So when I really started to dig in and I really started to bulldoze my fear and really go and do the work, it opened my mind to so many different things.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, a lot of the women listening do have kids and I agree with your point that having a strong purpose or a strong why is very important or it helps you to hold tight to the vision of why you're doing this deep work. But even for those of you who do not have children, if you can find anything in your life and you you are a good enough reason. But if you can absolutely anything in your life to hold on to, it's unexplainably worth it.
Speaker 2:It's unexplainably worth it. I totally get that and I have a story about that. So last year I started to drive for Lyft for a little while and I can't book in my car because a Lyft rider told me to and I said, okay, but when people would see it, it started a conversation and I met this amazing young lady, picked her up at a hospital and she was in detox and we started to talk about her sobriety and she was going into rehab the next day and she said you know, I've tried, I've tried and tried and tried over and over and over again. I say I'm going to do it for my kids, I'm going to do it for this, I'm going to do it for that. And then I fall off the wagon and then I'm disgusted with myself and the pattern just keeps going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as we started talking more, she opened up to me about the fact that she was molested as a young child. But because it happened so often, it felt normal to her. Yeah, she didn't know that this was trauma. It felt normal to her. Yeah, she didn't know that this was trauma. And I told her that unless you work on that, sobriety is going to be harder. Yeah, and it was like for her it, it opened her mind. She was like whoa, no one's ever told me that, which floored me.
Speaker 2:I was like wait, you've been to rehab three times and nobody has no one's ever said that, nobody has asked you about any trauma you've had, but remember in her mind it wasn't trauma, trauma, so it probably never came up.
Speaker 2:It wasn't trauma, because she said oh, I've never been through trauma like you have. And it just started this conversation. So it was an important aha moment for me as well as for her, because what she realized is I said what is the one thing that you want more than anything in this world? And she said and I almost lost it she said I want to wake up one day with a smile on my face. That's never happened and it broke my heart. But I told her wrap your head around that thought that idea, feeling, feeling, yes.
Speaker 2:What would that feel like? For you to wake up and smile and just find joy in yourself, not in your kids, not because all of that will you know, it's a ripple effect. Yes, when they see mom is okay, they're going to be able to heal right.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:That's what I left her with, along with my book. But I left her with that and I said look, it's not going to be easy. I'm not going to candy coat this for you. It's going to suck, I'm sorry it does, but I guarantee you if you do the work and you open up and you're able to move through that pain. The other conversation we had was about forgiveness, and this is a really difficult thing to talk about, because there's still that thought that if you forgive someone, you're forgetting what they did to you, but you're not. You're forgiving for yourself. Yeah, but I tell people this when you forgive, you're taking your power back. Yeah, you're taking that power back from that person living in your head, from that thing that happened to you living in your head. Yeah, you're saying I'm taking my power back, I'm going to heal from this and you're not going to hurt me anymore.
Speaker 2:Or that's not going to hurt me anymore. So that's another conversation that we had and I said and you have to be ready, Forgiveness will happen when you're ready. And I speak to this because my mom has lived her entire life with so much hatred and anger and victimhood that it is literally she lost her identity. She doesn't know who she is and I was not going to be that person. That is not the person that I wanted to be, so I did everything in my power to not do that.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh my gosh, I resonate so hard and I also think it's important. So forgiveness isn't just for the other person, it's for yourself, like you said, but I also really think it's important to forgive yourself. Yep, I don't know if other women feel this way, but for me, a lot of the time during that trauma or during that healing, that grieving process, it was never difficult for me to forgive the other person and, as a matter of fact, I never had any hostility or resentment towards that person. It was really hard for me to forgive myself Because a part of you and I know probably everyone listening is going to resonate with this, because I hear it all the time A part of you feels like it doesn't matter how not responsible you were for what happened. A part of you feels responsible. A part of you feels like, well, I wasn't strong enough, I wasn't smart enough, I am broken because I'm still going through the same cycle. I can't figure it out.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, but I think a lot of that too, speaking to women, is that we have been pounded into the head since we were little girls not to dress a certain way, not to talk to a man a certain way, and this is really important right now too. It has always been driven into our head that the man no matter if we want to agree with this or not, but the man is the superior one. And it is our job as women to respect them to follow them, to not second guess them, to don't tempt them.
Speaker 2:Trust them, right. But the problem is is that more and more and more and more men feel like they can take advantage of that. So I know from experience, just in having to face the man who killed my dad during the sentencing, I had friends that were like how are you going to do that? Like he's the bad man. Right, he's the bad man. And I said I have to. I have to look him in the eyes. I always knew I had to tell him what I felt, I had to get it out, and I knew that whatever was coming out of my mouth just went right over his head and he could care less. Right, right, but it was important to me, it's healing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was important to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and even you know him being on death row before they got rid of the death penalty in California, because if this had happened in Texas, we wouldn't be talking about this. But when we realized that we weren't going to be able to see his sentence carried out, I had to have that realization, because there was multiple men involved. The man that actually killed my dad is the one that just died. Another one is serving life imprisonment without parole. He's never getting out. The third one was let go after 32 years in 2017. Oh, wow, and I wanted so desperately to continue to heal. The problem was that that man, who was released in 2017, came up for parole every three to five years. So I had three to five years of healing and then he'd come up for parole and my mom would say you have to send a letter and you have to do this and you have to do that.
Speaker 2:Re-traumatizing yourself over and over again, exactly, and everything in my power. At that point I was like I don't want to write a letter, yeah, but then I didn't want to hear it from from my mother either, so I just did. But at the last time he went up for parole I just said to myself I need to be okay with the outcome, no matter what it's going to happen, if it's supposed to happen, and I have to let go of that. And my mom was all kinds of swirling and mad and all that and I was like, no, I need to find peace, I need to find peace. So when he was let go and he was paroled, I had a sense of relief because I knew now I can take all the things that I had learned about myself in my different forms of therapy and keep moving forward and keep doing it and keep healing. And the other part of it was I had always said I was going to write a book, but I had no idea how to do that. It wasn't until I was 50 and I was at a point in my mental health where I knew that, writing this book, I was able to dive in, relive, I was able to feel the feelings again and I had the tools to pull myself out when it got a lot.
Speaker 2:And there were days where I had to say, I'm giving myself grace today because I have nothing left, and it's okay to do that when you are at your tippy top, like grace. Give yourself grace. Give yourself that day and do something that gives yourself joy. And that's what I did. And it took me four and a half years to write my book. But in the process of it, what I realized was this was my purpose. My purpose is to help others through my story, through my experiences, to allow people to see themselves like you did, seeing yourselves in my story or in my experiences. So anytime I had that fear writing my book, I did the same thing. I just pictured the people out there that needed to hear my words and had to have hope. And so that's my purpose is I want to help others heal. And if I could do that, I mean my biggest goal is to be in front of 10,000 people on a stage and just be, able to connect with them.
Speaker 2:I think Friday there's going to be 200 people, but I'm on my way.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, that's so amazing. And, gosh, speaking is actually very healing, like truly speaking and telling your story, and just having these conversations is very healing. And for me, the journaling I love, meditation, breathwork, I love those have all been very, very healing for me. But two things specifically were like the turning point, I guess you could say for me. The first one was, like I told you in my therapist, for the first time ever, kind of validated what I didn't know, I needed to know at that time, which was that my thoughts, beliefs, feelings, they're not my own, they're the people who raised me. I borrowed them from them. And then the second thing was that I learned that happiness is a science. It's not something you have to will yourself to feel. It's a science.
Speaker 1:And today I really value taking care of myself. I'm health conscious. Granted, I wasn't taking care of myself or health conscious at the time when I was deep in the thick of it. But learning that happiness is a science and not something that you have to dedicate your entire life and eight hours of your day to like little, bare minimum daily habits that can really change your physiology. So for me those were the big turning points. I would love to know. What do you feel like was your big turning point? When I think about it, I think about like part one of Lacey and my life and then part two, like after this turning point. What was your turning point to part two of Susan?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I have to say I had been yearning to tell my story for so many years because people would tell my story in their own heads and I felt like I needed people to see me and know me authentically. And I also knew in writing my book that it could blow up my relationship with my mother, because in telling my truth I had to tell hers and it was the only way that I could be a hundred percent authentic. So there was fear there. Second fear was security. Safety If I put myself out there, am I going to become a target? And when you've had someone that has been assassinated, you have a reality that that it could happen again. And then I spoke about some very personal things with my husband as well, and so there was that fear too.
Speaker 2:We've been together a really long time. It's been up and down like any other marriage. There was a divorce in the middle and we remarried each other. But it was so important to me to have my story out there, and the day that my book came to me and it was printed was such a huge thing for me because I knew, first of all, it was terrifying, of course, pushing that button and going live Absolutely. And when it showed up at my house, looking at it and knowing this was me authentically and I was going out into the world, I felt a responsibility. And I was going out into the world, I felt a responsibility and I felt so great because I felt like my purpose was being realized and I was excited for the future. I was excited to see who was going to connect with it, who was going to get something out of it and it was going to change the mindsets about things and that was the real turning point for me.
Speaker 2:I was really excited for the first time in turning my dad's legacy and I always say there's purpose in his death and I found my purpose in his death. And some people are like, ah, how do you say that? But it's true, good things came out of his death, that. But it's true, good things came out of his death. And I wanted to change the legacy a bit from the sadness and the anger and all of that, because within law enforcement, people remember this story and there's still a lot of anger and pain around my dad's death and I felt like, maybe in a little tiny way, when they see my resiliency, they see how far I've come and they've read my pain and they've seen the other side of it, that it would help them to heal as well.
Speaker 2:So, I was really excited that I would be able to heal some folks from that pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing and I I mean it took me over seven years to really speak and tell my story for the first time. So I totally resonate with the fear of like okay one, I might implicate others. And then there's the fear of being whether it be like a physical target from physical safety or just like an emotional target from your family or whoever else is involved. I resonate with that and so I know for so many women that's what holds them back from even sharing their story and being able to share their truth. But again, speaking and sharing is so healing and so you're taking your power back.
Speaker 2:Yes, you are taking your power back from whatever hurt you or whatever situation it was. You are gaining control of your life again.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, okay, so I only have a few questions left, but before we dive in really quick, I want to give you an opportunity to tell us about your book, tell us about the coaching that you offer and where we can find you on social media. All that, sure.
Speaker 2:So my book right now is on Amazon. It's available by paperback and it's also in Kindle form. If you're on Kindle Unlimited, you're able to read my book for free. I am going to work on getting an audio book done. But as far as coaching and speaking, I have a website. It's susansnowspeakscom, and if you have questions or you just need somebody to talk to, you can certainly email me through my website. I'm on all social media so you can find me on TikTok, you can find me on Instagram. You just plug in my name and I'll pop up. I'd be more than happy to chat with you. As far as coaching, I do resiliency life coaching. So if you have gone through therapy and you've done the work, but now you don't know how to move forward and take what you've learned and move forward with it, that's where I come into play. Yeah, so we create a plan and we attack it, just what my therapist did, a little at a time, so it's not overwhelming.
Speaker 1:And with my coaching, you can also just go to my website and send me an email Awesome and I'll have links for everything in the show notes so anyone who wants to go and find that easily, you can just go right to the show notes and it'll be right there for you. Awesome, okay, susan. So now that it's almost 40 years later since that initial incident, would you say there are still challenges that you face today or throughout this healing journey that you still have to navigate or support yourself through or even find support for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, like I said earlier, I'm 55 and last year I realized that my relationship with my mom was very toxic and it was not healthy. And the book did exactly what I was fearful of. She was not happy and she stopped talking to me. So we are no contact at this point, and that's okay. I'm navigating that right now. But I, I'm at peace. I tell people protect your peace, that's it. So I'm at peace about that and that's okay. I'm navigating that right now, but I'm at peace. I tell people protect your peace, that's it. So I'm at peace about that. That's the one thing that I've had to navigate lately.
Speaker 2:But you know, every time an officer is killed in the line of duty, every time I hear of another family that is going to have to have the experiences that I've had in the past, it does trigger me, and I hate that word trigger past. It does trigger me and I hate that word trigger. But it does. Yeah, it does, it does, and the difference is that now I know what's best for me, I know how to avoid certain things. I will avoid the news, I will avoid my phone, I will avoid anything, so that I'm not immersed in that scenario that situation, that energy, and I feel like I have the tools.
Speaker 2:I've been taught the tools to be able to pull my mindset into a more positive direction. I know how to regulate my nervous system when I become overly anxious, and it's very freeing when you have the tools. I feel like I'm definitely more in control of my post trauma and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the reason that I asked that question is to one validate and to hopefully to empower women who feel like, oh, I just can't seem to get out of this, I can't seem to figure it out, can't seem to heal, I must be broken. It is a lifelong journey, yep, does the scar ever go away? Maybe not. Does it actually scar over, though? Yes, it does scar over. You get stronger, you learn, you heal, you pick up tools and practices along the way that help you.
Speaker 1:But it is a lifelong journey and I know for me, the first few years of going through this, anytime I would get triggered or have those feelings come back up and maybe experience a little bit of PTSD. It would almost set me back mentally because I would feel like, well, maybe I haven't done as much healing as I thought and I would feel bad about myself. And I know women personally who have these experiences. I mean, every time something happens, they feel like they've been set back, that they haven't made as much progress as they have. But I want you to know that it is a normal journey. Yes, it's very normal. It's a lifelong journey and you get better, you gain the tools and the knowledge and you're able to handle it and navigate it better. So just know that.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. I think it's really important for people to realize that we're human and I think a lot of people like to compartmentalize trauma and you can only do that so much. Compartmentalizing is a lot of that masking that I talked about earlier. But you are human and there are going to be days. I even tell some of my coaching clients like you're going to have good days and you're going to have bad days, and that's okay, right, because you're learning. It's a learning experience. Just because I wrote a book and I'm out speaking does not mean I am done in any shape or form. I will be ever evolving until I am no longer on this planet. I'm still going to make mistakes, I'm still going to slip back into mindsets of am I good enough? Or all of those feelings of not being adequate, not being enough, and again, it's normal. And what you need to know is that once you've got these tools, you don't slip back and then don't come out of it, right, right right you have an awareness.
Speaker 2:If you have an awareness, then you're able to do something about it. So it's just making sure that you have an awareness of your own self and your own peace and what you need and this is your journey. This and what you need and this is your journey. This is not your therapist's journey, this is yours, so you need to make you the priority, exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And another thing for the women who are still scared to speak their truth and to have their own back, maybe for fear of retaliation or fear of abandonment Something I learned many years ago that truly changed my life. Someone said to me that when you put other people's needs above your own, and when you put to an unhealthy degree, you put others first because you don't want to abandon them or make them feel abandoned You're actually abandoning yourself. And something else I've learned is the moment that you start putting yourself first and you start taking care of your needs and loving yourself and having healthy boundaries, the people who wanted to use you and the people who didn't actually value you as a person are going to be upset about it, and so you just have to know that when that happens, those weren't your people and maybe they weren't meant to be with you on this part of your journey, and that is something that, unfortunately, you might have to make peace with, but you are worth it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I've lost friends. I've lost friends because they saw me healing and they didn't want me to, and that's them, that's on them, that's not on you.
Speaker 1:That's called trauma bonding it is Some people don't want you to heal because they're not ready to heal, and so they want to bond with you through your trauma. But if you're ready, and you know that you're ready, you have to let that go and you have to put yourself first.
Speaker 2:Yep, absolutely. And you know, on an airplane and they're giving you the instructions before you take off, and they talk about cabin pressure and if you lose cabin pressure the oxygen masks will fall down in front of you, and that you're supposed to put your mask on before helping others with theirs.
Speaker 2:This is life right. You take care of yourself and you will be able to support and love and give to others. If you're not taking care of yourself first, how are you supposed to help others? Because you won't have anything left, exactly. So you're digging from a shallow place, yes, and you're giving whatever is left to that other person. So it's important to take care of yourself first and foremost, and then you have it to give to other people. You have it to experience things with other people wholeheartedly, yeah. But if you don't, you have nothing left or you're giving the last of you away and you're left shallow.
Speaker 2:I totally agree, and I think it's important that people put themselves as their priority always. Yeah, and you're not being selfish, and I hear this a lot with women. Yeah, we feel selfish If we take time for ourselves. We feel selfish because we're not being selfish, and I hear this a lot with women. Yeah, we feel selfish if we take time for ourselves. We feel selfish because we're not giving everything to our children or our husband or our wife or whoever.
Speaker 1:Right. But you have to give to you first, yeah, I always say that the highest form of love you can give to others is self-love, because, as cliche as it is, you can't pour from an empty cup.
Speaker 2:Yep, exactly, exactly my point yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so unfortunately, when it comes to the talk of overcoming and healing from trauma, we usually don't start learning about emotional resiliency and emotional intelligence until after something has happened. But for everyone listening, are there any specific practices that you recommend for being proactive and training for emotional resiliency within the mind and the body?
Speaker 2:I think, personally, you just got to kind of find out what works for you. I mean, I've talked to women and men alike who maybe books are what give them the education and some people are very much about. I want to know exactly why I have these reactions, or why I do the things that I do, and they educate themselves through books, and I'm seeing that a lot more, a lot more people, a lot more people are doing more research to dive in and figure out what it is that they're just gaining that awareness. Yeah, because honestly, there is no one size fits all, that's true. Yeah, and you really you really have to dabble in different things to see if that's something that you feel connected to things like breathing techniques and things like that. Anyone can do those things.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They're going to have the same reaction because it's your nervous system that you're working with, but things like EMDR or I think it's called CMT. There's a lot of different things out there and depending on what you went through, what trauma that you went through, is quite and you might figure out for you what's going to serve you better, and there isn't a one size fits all.
Speaker 2:I give my experiences so that people kind of know what's out there. But what worked for me may not work for you, and that's okay. There is something out there that will help you. You've just got to figure out what that is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. I'm 100% in the same mindset with you that it's not one size fit all and different things serve different people. I know people who swear by like the tapping technique. I know some people who love Reiki and then others think that it's just weird and they just can't get themselves into it. You know some people swear by breath work and meditation. Other people fall asleep during meditation. So it literally does depend on, like, how you can connect with it and then also different things might connect with you at different points in your journey.
Speaker 1:I used to journal in the beginning a lot. I don't journal as much, I do more of a gratitude journal now, but journaling as something the EMDR therapy was heavy in the beginning for me. I'm not currently in therapy, but I do believe in proactive therapy as well. I mean, there's so many different things but it really is, like you said, just finding what you connect with and that usually comes from doing your research and gaining your awareness, which I love reading. That wasn't always the case.
Speaker 1:I am an avid book reader, book enthusiast today, and I can say that's one of the things I attribute a lot of my transformation to is the books I've read and the perspectives I've gained through reading, so I recommend it to everyone. You have an author here on this episode, susan, and you've also got an avid book reader here, so if y'all need any recommendations, you can speak to either of us. But yeah, with that said, to that I ask every guest that comes on this podcast is if you could leave everyone with one word of advice or encouragement, just to all women who've ever experienced anything traumatic in their life. What would you say?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I said it. I think that you need to make sure that you are the priority and that if you truly want to heal and feel better, you got to do the work. I hate to rain on your parade. It is work, it is work, it is work. I'm not going to candy coat it. It's not easy and you can get through it. And, like I talked to you about therapy and making sure you have therapists that you feel comfortable with, that you feel safe with, that you're able to be vulnerable with, because the vulnerability part is key. You can't lie to your therapist. There's a lot of people that do it Right and a lot of that happens because you're not connected with that person and you don't feel like you're being heard.
Speaker 2:So then you stop going and you think, oh, therapy didn't work for me, right? Well, it's because you didn't have the right person, right? It might take you two or three people. Exactly, it might take you one person, you just never know. I think betting on yourself, like really betting on yourself and knowing that when you do the work, when you have the people and the things that support your healing, you will find that healing and it will change your life and you can find resiliency. Yes, and I know it's hard when you're in it, when you're drowning in it, and that you look at it every day and you wake up in the morning and you just beg to feel better, but that's a temporary thing, it can change. Yeah, and if you surround yourself with the right people that support you in your healing, sky's the limit.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I love that so much. That was the perfect answer. Okay, so the last two questions that I ask everyone who comes on this podcast. This is the bold and bad-ass podcast. It's all about women on personal growth journey and stepping into and embodying the most bold and badass version of themselves. So the first question is what is something bold you've done in 2024?
Speaker 2:I think, getting into this world being on podcasts, I never thought in a million years I'd be doing this, and here I am. I just I jumped in with both feet and I said I got to get this message out and however that's going to happen, I'm going to do it. So I think that was the boldest thing I've done. It's just really diving into this world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and I do want to speak to that, because oftentimes we think that we're the only ones who feel this way, like, oh, who am I to speak, who am I to go and do this? But you feel in your heart, you just got to go with it. No matter what level of person I've ever spoken with, everybody feels this, literally everyone. It's normal and you just got to show up anyways. So thank you for that season. I love that. Okay, the last question is a little bit of future pacing. So you're on your deathbed, reflecting back over your life. I want you to think about what is the most bad-ass thing that you did in this lifetime. It could be something that you've already done, something you're still creating or in the process of or dreaming of.
Speaker 2:I think the most that I would be proud of is the mother I was to my kids, raising amazing human beings who will carry on my legacy. And that way I just I have no regrets and I feel like, yeah, I want to be on stages all over the world and I want to tell my story all over the world. I will say that when someone walks up to me and says you helped me. I read your book I connected with this. You've made me think differently.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That's like equivalent to all the awards in the entire world, Like, yes, when I'm able to connect with someone in that way and it shows up all the time, and I know that I'm living my purpose. My kiddos see this. I say kiddos, but they're adults. They'll always be your babies. They're still my babies. They're able to see that how their mom was and I know they'll be proud and that's what really makes me happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that so much. Well, susan, I just appreciate you so much for coming on today, sharing your story with vulnerability and authenticity, and just being unafraid to put yourself out there and do this work that really matters and is impacting women in a positive way and not just women people in a positive way, because this is the work that matters. It's what makes a difference in people's lives. It's what's helped you and myself both turn our stories around. So I just want to say thank you, and I'm really grateful that we did this today. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for being here, and, queen, give yourself a high five for showing up and committing to be the best version of yourself for you and your people. You are such a badass for that. If you got anything good from this episode, would you send the love back by DMing me on Instagram at Boldly Lacey, letting me know exactly which part resonated with you? These types of messages empower me to keep showing up, and they also help me understand the types of conversations you really care about. All right, bestie, we'll talk again soon, but for now, it's time for you to step up and start being the badass that we both know you are.